what is a video game

[Ben]

i like daniel's point about impossibility

Like I guess the real question is would you play Magic the Gathering on a computer if

a) you had a full collection of cards available,

b) there were people around willing to play with you and

c) the video game were no different in any way from the real thing (no cool animations, no automatic dice rolls or whatever, nothing a computer could do that a human can't or takes longer to do)?

a.) yes 
b.) yes if they wanted to play online too  
c.) wait what? the fact is if you put mtg on a computer, there would at the very least be some conveniences added, auto shuffle, dice rolling, taking cards out of the graveyard would even be less of a hassle if you could just click the deck and all the cards in there came up. I've never played mtg I just have the most basic idea of how it's played, and I am pretty sure the mtg online client is just a black screen with your cards on it, with those basic conveniences, and I have friends that play it together.

exactly. that's my point. I think if computers gave you an experience "as is real life" like that, nothing gained or lost, there would be no point to video games.

to me the idea that a group of people in the same room with prepared decks would prefer the computer instead is completely bonkers. mtg online is cool bc, well, that group isnt always around, and you can play whenever (therefore, meeting an impossibility)

i think its worth mentioning that it would be impossible for a video game to be "as is real life" and not not a video game. what i mean is, once you make a game as real as real life- it is real life and wouldnt be a game. the two are mutually exclusive. this is a good confirmation of his point, though i think a) and b) are kind of irrelevant

Books are seen as a more "intellectual" hobby, compared to movies; and moreso than video games.

Yet, a video game can do everything a book can (i.e. give you words to read).  It can do eveything a radio can, and also everything a movie can.  And more! It has more power than any other medium.  However, despite all that power we (by which I mean the average joe) also expect video games to be "dumber" or more of "a waste of time" than books.  Are we wrong in our assumptions, or are we right and most developers do squander that power to make "wastes of time"?

with great power comes great responsibility. i agree and will say more later but i gotta go soon

i think daniel's pinball example is funny. surely, pinball is just a score and a set of conditions predicated upon sensors, mechanical flippers, and springs. does classical mechanics invalidate something for being a video game? are all the flippers and sensors just a "controller" that is hard as hell to use? what are other examples of games that do this?

i had another one: in one of the final destination movies, you can... press a button on your remote to decide whether a character survives a thing, like a choose-your-own adventure. is this a video game? obviously i think in both examples the definition arises from the context. the pinball table evolves from a mechanical analog game and the second one evolves from film