us election thread

[grue]

I've not been entirely sold on the validity of usuncut as a news source this primary season, but I found this to be interesting. Jill Stein shared it on her Facebook a few days back(FWIW). 
http://usuncut.com/politics/jill-stein-campaign-surge/

I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion, necessarily, but it's a trend I'd like to see continue. I'd think it'd spook the fuck out of the DNC if a large portion of young and independent voters flock to a Green Party and/or Libertarian candidate. I'm a fan of this whole "voting with your conscience" thing. I disagree immensely with Gary Johnson on fiscal shit, but he's honest, sane. I'll probably vote for whomever out of Johnson/Stein ends up picking up momentum. 

It'll take polling at 15% in a few major polls for Johnson and Stein to get into the debates with Clinton and Trump. Here's to hoping. Johnson at the moment is polling on average between like 8-13%. Stein is a little lower but has been an option in very few major polls. It's for the best that these two get a shot. Pick one, stick to it, vote for 'em. My two cents. Maybe it'll cause a ruckus. Maybe it'll get Trump elected. Who gives a shit? Shake it up.

Here's the fucking Libertarian equivalent of usuncut pumping Johnson's poll numbers.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/17/gary-j...polling-hi

I used to like Jill Stein but as she progresses further into the spotlight her inadequacy is starting to show. Her discourse is flashy but doesn't seem very solid, and I doubt she'd survive a single debate. As for the libertarians, I like libertarians because they're insane but yeah, they're insane. I don't know much about Gary though.

[Delirious Biznasty]

I've not been entirely sold on the validity of usuncut as a news source this primary season, but I found this to be interesting. Jill Stein shared it on her Facebook a few days back(FWIW). 
http://usuncut.com/politics/jill-stein-campaign-surge/

I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion, necessarily, but it's a trend I'd like to see continue. I'd think it'd spook the fuck out of the DNC if a large portion of young and independent voters flock to a Green Party and/or Libertarian candidate. I'm a fan of this whole "voting with your conscience" thing. I disagree immensely with Gary Johnson on fiscal shit, but he's honest, sane. I'll probably vote for whomever out of Johnson/Stein ends up picking up momentum. 

It'll take polling at 15% in a few major polls for Johnson and Stein to get into the debates with Clinton and Trump. Here's to hoping. Johnson at the moment is polling on average between like 8-13%. Stein is a little lower but has been an option in very few major polls. It's for the best that these two get a shot. Pick one, stick to it, vote for 'em. My two cents. Maybe it'll cause a ruckus. Maybe it'll get Trump elected. Who gives a shit? Shake it up.

Here's the fucking Libertarian equivalent of usuncut pumping Johnson's poll numbers.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/17/gary-j...polling-hi

"green party"

I'd rather vote in Hillary Clinton then have a party who has tunnel vision

As much as I love Ron and Rand Paul, the third party vote is practically useless unless the two party system gets decimated. Which is why I am hoping Trump stirs some real shit and collapses the idea that you have to be a shit face or a chucklefuck to run and get a guaranteed victory. 

Living in a world where more than two parties have a chance in the election of the most powerful country on the planet. But holy hell, people don't realize that voting for House of Representative members and Senators means more than the Executive section of the government.

[Ben]

well, ron and rand paul are republicans for some reason. they are sitting in the party just to get by, and trump commandeered the party for his own purposes too. if who you are isnt important and its only what party your name under that matters, then we have a problem

and yes the legislative branch is hugely important (and even more so, the local level government rather than the Big Man) however for some reason we still have this monarchical expectation of one guy calling the shots

[GSOM]

I've not been entirely sold on the validity of usuncut as a news source this primary season, but I found this to be interesting. Jill Stein shared it on her Facebook a few days back(FWIW). 
http://usuncut.com/politics/jill-stein-campaign-surge/

I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion, necessarily, but it's a trend I'd like to see continue. I'd think it'd spook the fuck out of the DNC if a large portion of young and independent voters flock to a Green Party and/or Libertarian candidate. I'm a fan of this whole "voting with your conscience" thing. I disagree immensely with Gary Johnson on fiscal shit, but he's honest, sane. I'll probably vote for whomever out of Johnson/Stein ends up picking up momentum. 

It'll take polling at 15% in a few major polls for Johnson and Stein to get into the debates with Clinton and Trump. Here's to hoping. Johnson at the moment is polling on average between like 8-13%. Stein is a little lower but has been an option in very few major polls. It's for the best that these two get a shot. Pick one, stick to it, vote for 'em. My two cents. Maybe it'll cause a ruckus. Maybe it'll get Trump elected. Who gives a shit? Shake it up.

Here's the fucking Libertarian equivalent of usuncut pumping Johnson's poll numbers.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/17/gary-j...polling-hi

I used to like Jill Stein but as she progresses further into the spotlight her inadequacy is starting to show. Her discourse is flashy but doesn't seem very solid, and I doubt she'd survive a single debate. As for the libertarians, I like libertarians because they're insane but yeah, they're insane. I don't know much about Gary though.

She has the anti-vax and anti-gmo nonsense. Gary Johnson had kids executed. They're both nutty. Gary has a solid head on his shoulders. Good experience as governor of New Mexico. He has appeal across the tiny, American political spectrum. Smokes weed, climbed the tallest peak on each continent. Jill has been arrested for protesting. They both have the real human being appeal. Definitely not lizards. I kind of loathe the Green Party. I just can't fucking vote for Clinton/Trump.

[GSOM]

My feel is that people like Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein, Gary Johnson. They're basically decent and might inspire people to vote in local elections and organize, protest, strike. You know, the things that used to push our shitty politicians to do shit.

[fat lesbian]

is gary johnson the loser ass libertarian that's against gay marriage

[fat lesbian]

also supports the tpp... and wants to gut all government assistance... worth mentioning

[Delirious Biznasty]

My feel is that people like Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein, Gary Johnson. They're basically decent and might inspire people to vote in local elections and organize, protest, strike. You know, the things that used to push our shitty politicians to do shit.

You should read The Prince if you haven't already. After daddy bush and obama getting into office, I suggest everyone do.

[Ben]

ive never heard jill stein speak to humans (that is to say, i dont think ive ever heard her give a speech and ive especially not heard her talk one on one with anyone)

but i have with gary, and if i like gary for any reason it is because he has self doubt and he isnt immediately "libertarian". i said this earlier in the thread, but:

the real problem here as far as i am concerned is the two-party element of this- the idea that because one guy is awful, you now have to vote for the other guy (who may be just as awful or worse?)

alternatively, if there is a legitimate third party candidate (or more than one) then this problem dissolves. think about how fringe and weird trump seemed and now he has legions of folk behind him. it's weird, right?

I will have to do some reading on this 'jerry johnson' you speak of, because I am not familiar with that name at all to be completely honest.

if you want a very human and modest discussion of gary, his time as governor, and (his) libertarianism then you should go listen to this interview he did on penn jillette's podcast

i like gary, personally, because he seems like a cool dude. i like obama for the same reason. trump seems like a miserable narcissist and i have a suspicion that hillary will literally disintegrate after reaching the oval office because thats the mission the aliens sent her to this planet to complete

the libertarian position has always been scary to me because it seems predicated upon weird economic ideas like arachno-capitalism, free markets, the invisible hand, collectivism, etc and not only do i know nothing about these things, what i do know is not positive. even government policies like liquidating entirely all government programs and destroying all the cabinets and etc. and also wacky libertarian ideas like legalizing all drugs, which is fine by me but too radical to be accepted by the mainstream i think

HOWEVER gary is a cool dude. he's just a conservative person in the abstract sense rather than political. when approaching an issue he wants to see if it can be achieved with more freedom instead of less, and he wants to see if its a problem that will solve itself if people stop pushing it in certain directions. there was a libertarian debate between him, the crazyman john mcafee, and a younger guy who actually has those purist libertarian mentalities. gary got asked if he would have signed the 1964 civil rights act and he said yes and people booed him. they arent racists, they are just insane. i like that about him

so all of the "gary believes ____" and "libertarians are gonna _____" is kind of weird. bernie was a socialist, but his platform wasnt aiming to collectivize america's agriculture. nobody thought that and nobody expected that. gary is a smart dude that stretches things toward an ideal, he isnt going to burn life to the ground and pave the way for his libertarian utopia

[Ben]

also if you listen to the interview (or others like it), he has such a funny outlook on the things he DOES want

he says "i wanna do this. i dont know if itll work or if i can, but thats what i want to do. its a pipe dream, but there is reason to believe this works" which is the kind of rhetoric i enjoy

[fat lesbian]

yeah sorry if i don't think "opposes gay marriage" can be explained away that easily Ben

[Ben]

sorry niki i was talking to GSOM who is actually discussing something rather than stating bait

[grue]

ive never heard jill stein speak to humans (that is to say, i dont think ive ever heard her give a speech and ive especially not heard her talk one on one with anyone)

but i have with gary, and if i like gary for any reason it is because he has self doubt and he isnt immediately "libertarian". i said this earlier in the thread, but:

the real problem here as far as i am concerned is the two-party element of this- the idea that because one guy is awful, you now have to vote for the other guy (who may be just as awful or worse?)

alternatively, if there is a legitimate third party candidate (or more than one) then this problem dissolves. think about how fringe and weird trump seemed and now he has legions of folk behind him. it's weird, right?

I will have to do some reading on this 'jerry johnson' you speak of, because I am not familiar with that name at all to be completely honest.

if you want a very human and modest discussion of gary, his time as governor, and (his) libertarianism then you should go listen to this interview he did on penn jillette's podcast

i like gary, personally, because he seems like a cool dude. i like obama for the same reason. trump seems like a miserable narcissist and i have a suspicion that hillary will literally disintegrate after reaching the oval office because thats the mission the aliens sent her to this planet to complete

the libertarian position has always been scary to me because it seems predicated upon weird economic ideas like arachno-capitalism, free markets, the invisible hand, collectivism, etc and not only do i know nothing about these things, what i do know is not positive. even government policies like liquidating entirely all government programs and destroying all the cabinets and etc. and also wacky libertarian ideas like legalizing all drugs, which is fine by me but too radical to be accepted by the mainstream i think

HOWEVER gary is a cool dude. he's just a conservative person in the abstract sense rather than political. when approaching an issue he wants to see if it can be achieved with more freedom instead of less, and he wants to see if its a problem that will solve itself if people stop pushing it in certain directions. there was a libertarian debate between him, the crazyman john mcafee, and a younger guy who actually has those purist libertarian mentalities. gary got asked if he would have signed the 1964 civil rights act and he said yes and people booed him. they arent racists, they are just insane. i like that about him

so all of the "gary believes ____" and "libertarians are gonna _____" is kind of weird. bernie was a socialist, but his platform wasnt aiming to collectivize america's agriculture. nobody thought that and nobody expected that. gary is a smart dude that stretches things toward an ideal, he isnt going to burn life to the ground and pave the way for his libertarian utopia

yep, this is a youtube video with a libertarian alright

[grue]

that being said yeah, he's likeable, he also plays the likeable card every third argument. that interview is good to know gary - the guy - but it doesnt say much of his policies. all he says is that when he does whatever, he is an upstanding individual

[Ben]

youre right, but when your platform is "stop giving the executive branch power" then what do you want their president to do?