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#31
oh right of course but is it true though or was it just some bullshit out of reddit? that robert e lee didn't want the war
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#32
(08-23-2017, 12:03 AM)grue Wrote: oh right of course but is it true though or was it just some bullshit out of reddit? that robert e lee didn't want the war

Doesn't matter. Even if the prejudice and racism was a product of their time, it was bad then and bad today.
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#33
what

I'm

it's ok, wikipedia answered my question
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#34
(08-23-2017, 12:53 AM)grue Wrote: what

I'm

it's ok, wikipedia answered my question

Sorry if I was vague, I was comparing him to Rommel, who also had good intentions in the previous post so I thought it was adequate
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#35
yeah that makes more sense to me now «, admitedly I was reading this in between reading other things so it all got confusing for my tiny brain
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#36
so apparently there's a military uhm barrack? named after lee, do you think that's adequate in any sense?

hey look grant is there too
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#37
So- my understanding of lee, which is sympathetic, is that he was fighting for his state of Virginia and refuses to kill his fellow virginian. This sealed his fate when it came to secession, and at that point, who turns down leading the entire confederate army?
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#38
considering that it was grotesquely outnumbered, I would say a whole lot of people lol
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#39
(08-22-2017, 08:38 PM)Ben Wrote:
(08-22-2017, 10:11 AM)fat lesbian Wrote:
(08-22-2017, 08:37 AM)Ben Wrote: you
(08-22-2017, 07:43 AM)fat lesbian Wrote: but does it actually go without saying Ben

bizarrely, it doesnt when it comes to the crazies that bus in to protest the removal of a statue but when it comes to someone youve known in a community for 10 years, you can maybe assume i am not suddenly a red-pilled alt right mra

you've refused to speak to me in any type of good faith for five years. i have no way of knowing if you have changed for the worse and to what extent. either way, your claim that you were trying to be unbiased is concerning on its own, this isn't something you can just Present, its nazis murdering people and not taking a clear stance is... not an admirable thing.

guilty until proven innocent isnt really my thing. your desire to use that to jump down someones throat is highly cynical and may give you a clue as to why i have not wanted to talk to you
Ben. listen. i don't want to talk to you. i don't like you. i don't think you're a good person. i don't find you intelligent or engaging. i don't want to "jump down your throat", i thought it was concerning that you condemned "anti white" shit but not literal Nazis. get over yourself. you're not as smart or objective as you think you are and you never have been, and ben, it's why NO ONE wants to talk to you. 
all i expect from you is to not act like a jilted teenager on the forum and if you can't seem to manage that then so be it but don't try to couch your implicit support for white supremacy in the language of neutrality.
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#40
(08-22-2017, 07:13 PM)Delirious Biznasty Wrote: Its the equivalent of tearing down the Lenin statues in post-communist countries. Its not a memorial, its something people don't want to see.

If it was a monument to the dead, I'd be angry. Death has no bias, so there should be no reasons to remove something like that.

there is no way you're making a genuine comparison between confederate generals who fought for slavery and lenin lol that's so disingenuous
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#41
(08-22-2017, 11:29 PM)grue Wrote: also wasn't robert e lee the tamest of the southern leaders or something? I read somewhere he was personally against the war but as a general he couldn't do much about it idk

"just following orders" actually was considered not an adequate reason to commit or defend atrocities in some big trial after world war 2 that you may have heard of
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#42
(08-23-2017, 11:08 AM)fat lesbian Wrote:
(08-22-2017, 07:13 PM)Delirious Biznasty Wrote: Its the equivalent of tearing down the Lenin statues in post-communist countries. Its not a memorial, its something people don't want to see.

If it was a monument to the dead, I'd be angry. Death has no bias, so there should be no reasons to remove something like that.

there is no way you're making a genuine comparison between confederate generals who fought for slavery and lenin lol that's so disingenuous

I'm comparing two people who lead people to their deaths
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#43
(08-23-2017, 11:07 AM)fat lesbian Wrote:
(08-22-2017, 08:38 PM)Ben Wrote:
(08-22-2017, 10:11 AM)fat lesbian Wrote:
(08-22-2017, 08:37 AM)Ben Wrote: you
(08-22-2017, 07:43 AM)fat lesbian Wrote: but does it actually go without saying Ben

bizarrely, it doesnt when it comes to the crazies that bus in to protest the removal of a statue but when it comes to someone youve known in a community for 10 years, you can maybe assume i am not suddenly a red-pilled alt right mra

you've refused to speak to me in any type of good faith for five years. i have no way of knowing if you have changed for the worse and to what extent. either way, your claim that you were trying to be unbiased is concerning on its own, this isn't something you can just Present, its nazis murdering people and not taking a clear stance is... not an admirable thing.

guilty until proven innocent isnt really my thing. your desire to use that to jump down someones throat is highly cynical and may give you a clue as to why i have not wanted to talk to you
Ben. listen. i don't want to talk to you. i don't like you. i don't think you're a good person. i don't find you intelligent or engaging. i don't want to "jump down your throat", i thought it was concerning that you condemned "anti white" shit but not literal Nazis. get over yourself. you're not as smart or objective as you think you are and you never have been, and ben, it's why NO ONE wants to talk to you. 
all i expect from you is to not act like a jilted teenager on the forum and if you can't seem to manage that then so be it but don't try to couch your implicit support for white supremacy in the language of neutrality.

ok cool, glad we are on the same page. i hope you find the help you need one day and am glad you wont be trying to talk to me anymore

(08-23-2017, 07:42 AM)grue Wrote: considering that it was grotesquely outnumbered, I would say a whole lot of people lol

well, it may be that i went to high school in the south but i was generally taught that one of the greatest strengths of the south during the war was the presence of lee compared to lincoln's constant milling around of generals (he went through five, i think). we also heard stories of some wise tactical moves despite the lack of troops, which were won due to lee's superior skillz over whoever was there are the time (hooker i think, who was the second most comedic next to burnside and his sideburns)
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#44
wikipedia says that initially lee had some brilliant millitary tactics and that's why he's still regarded as a great general by today's millitary. but then he did some "too aggressive" moves later on that caused him big losses and led him to surrender. but i've read somewhere that yeah, when it comes to sheer numbers and millitary strength, the south never stood a chance from the start. could be wrong info though
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#45
(08-23-2017, 09:51 PM)grue Wrote: wikipedia says that initially lee had some brilliant millitary tactics and that's why he's still regarded as a great general by today's millitary. but then he did some "too aggressive" moves later on that caused him big losses and led him to surrender. but i've read somewhere that yeah, when it comes to sheer numbers and millitary strength, the south never stood a chance from the start. could be wrong info though

"the south never stood a chance"

They did, until the emancipation proclamation happened and all foreign support was thrown out the window. No one wanted to join a war that was now about freeing the slaves, since abolition movements were still very strong in Britain at the time.
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